Feel like I was meant to open this one. Very astute questions you are asking. Amazing how this issue of betrayal non/reconciliation has both an everyday quality and a mythic-biblical depth simultaneously. Same question seemed to be swirling when I dropped in on the Net last week. Either this question is really coming forward in the field right now or I am harkening to the places and times that are asking it. In any case, continue on.
The First Session was amazing. Love to see you there Jacob if it works out! And that topic is so fascinating to orbit: been thinking about it a lot lately. Hope you are well!
Interesting piece. This xagick thing is it designed to only bring about changes in consciousness of oneself? Or is it aimed at willfully manipulating the world, objects, others to transform something more than the consciousness of the practitioner? If it is aimed only at one self, what makes these practices anything other than a personal ritual or personal contemplative or imaginal practice or are xagick and these one and the same thing?
On top of this, Crowley repeatedly extols the importance of love throughout his work. And I love how you’ve extended and deepened this conversation. Like Nietzsche, I think Crowley needs to be read in a serious tension with Christianity that remains unresolved, although both point towards the resolution.
Note this admission, however, from one of Crowleys diaries:
“No; I doubt whether I can love, because love is content to serve and worship where my soul lusts to grip, to win mastery over its own weakness, the proof of victory being the subjection of the woman, or her rejection and so, the death of love.”
Aware of his own tragic inability to live up to his own philosophy.
Crowley is Satanistic. It sounds similar to Christianity because he's referencing it to invert it. What Christian would say love goes under will in any way or that the law is just to do whatever you want?
Also I would not equate shamanistic practices with rituals. Shamanistic practices are mostly about altered states of consciousness. Rituals are supposed to alter people's intents and intentionality but it doesn't necessarily involve altering any immediate perceptions. Ceremonial magic and shamanism can certainly be done by the same person, especially in non-Western traditions but also in some Western traditions like the psychic witch idea or Norse, Celtic, etc. shamanism that are very much not all that derived from Crowley. At the extreme you have chaos magic which is aimed specifically at forgetting things so you can make spirits to do things for you, not going to find your spirit animals and your soul pieces. In fact I think that's the essence of black magic and what makes it black magic: deception and a lack of understanding. Black magic is essentially opposed to cognition, kind of like the common conception of sleight of hand magic as not being good when you know the secret except that's been shown not to be true so that's a misconception.
Consciousness alteration on the other hand can go different ways in my opinion. You can alter consciousness to hide things or to find things out and the difficulty is it's often hard to tell which is which when wishful thinking gets involved. Many people have gone psychotic from drug use and in the modern age people go psychotic just from video games. Consciousness altering is like hyperreality, whether it's real or not is not what matters, you use your rational mind to figure that out. Black magic on the other hand I think works specifically with the elements of deception and primarily self-deception, not other-deception, which is really what distinguishes it from illusionism. Just deceiving someone else is illusionism, deceiving yourself is black magic. Black magic sounds pretty unappealing that way and that's largely because that's my philosophy at work here, but there's a certain framework where it makes sense even if I think that framework is invalid and that's how the world gets its Crowleys among other black magicians.
I still think it is objectively a bad thing, but there is a perspective where it makes sense to some people to deceive yourself, and to see that perspective look no further than the philosophy of the chaos magicians who are deliberately trying to forget their sigils they draw. I think that's the real reason a lot of people who engage in magic particularly complain about the chaos magicians, because it makes them confront what black magic actually is, not because chaos magicians are edgelords and they like science fiction more than cutesy folklore and whatever.
Feel like I was meant to open this one. Very astute questions you are asking. Amazing how this issue of betrayal non/reconciliation has both an everyday quality and a mythic-biblical depth simultaneously. Same question seemed to be swirling when I dropped in on the Net last week. Either this question is really coming forward in the field right now or I am harkening to the places and times that are asking it. In any case, continue on.
Is there any possibility for a trail session of PP for this talk?
PP membership can be cancelled at any time so there is no risk if it’s not for you!
See you there
The First Session was amazing. Love to see you there Jacob if it works out! And that topic is so fascinating to orbit: been thinking about it a lot lately. Hope you are well!
Really looking forward to listening to this at work!
Interesting piece. This xagick thing is it designed to only bring about changes in consciousness of oneself? Or is it aimed at willfully manipulating the world, objects, others to transform something more than the consciousness of the practitioner? If it is aimed only at one self, what makes these practices anything other than a personal ritual or personal contemplative or imaginal practice or are xagick and these one and the same thing?
Amazing. Note that Crowley repeated pointed at Nietzsche in his work
“Nietzsche may be regarded as one of our prophets…”
—Magick Without Tears
, ch.48
“Nietzsche was to me almost an avatar of Thoth, the god of wisdom…”
—Confessions, ch.76
“Read Nietzsche!”
–“The Ordeal of Ida Pendragon” from The Equinox I:6
https://thelemicunion.com/aleister-crowley-friedrich-nietzsche/amp/
On top of this, Crowley repeatedly extols the importance of love throughout his work. And I love how you’ve extended and deepened this conversation. Like Nietzsche, I think Crowley needs to be read in a serious tension with Christianity that remains unresolved, although both point towards the resolution.
Note this admission, however, from one of Crowleys diaries:
“No; I doubt whether I can love, because love is content to serve and worship where my soul lusts to grip, to win mastery over its own weakness, the proof of victory being the subjection of the woman, or her rejection and so, the death of love.”
Aware of his own tragic inability to live up to his own philosophy.
Crowley is Satanistic. It sounds similar to Christianity because he's referencing it to invert it. What Christian would say love goes under will in any way or that the law is just to do whatever you want?
Also I would not equate shamanistic practices with rituals. Shamanistic practices are mostly about altered states of consciousness. Rituals are supposed to alter people's intents and intentionality but it doesn't necessarily involve altering any immediate perceptions. Ceremonial magic and shamanism can certainly be done by the same person, especially in non-Western traditions but also in some Western traditions like the psychic witch idea or Norse, Celtic, etc. shamanism that are very much not all that derived from Crowley. At the extreme you have chaos magic which is aimed specifically at forgetting things so you can make spirits to do things for you, not going to find your spirit animals and your soul pieces. In fact I think that's the essence of black magic and what makes it black magic: deception and a lack of understanding. Black magic is essentially opposed to cognition, kind of like the common conception of sleight of hand magic as not being good when you know the secret except that's been shown not to be true so that's a misconception.
Consciousness alteration on the other hand can go different ways in my opinion. You can alter consciousness to hide things or to find things out and the difficulty is it's often hard to tell which is which when wishful thinking gets involved. Many people have gone psychotic from drug use and in the modern age people go psychotic just from video games. Consciousness altering is like hyperreality, whether it's real or not is not what matters, you use your rational mind to figure that out. Black magic on the other hand I think works specifically with the elements of deception and primarily self-deception, not other-deception, which is really what distinguishes it from illusionism. Just deceiving someone else is illusionism, deceiving yourself is black magic. Black magic sounds pretty unappealing that way and that's largely because that's my philosophy at work here, but there's a certain framework where it makes sense even if I think that framework is invalid and that's how the world gets its Crowleys among other black magicians.
I still think it is objectively a bad thing, but there is a perspective where it makes sense to some people to deceive yourself, and to see that perspective look no further than the philosophy of the chaos magicians who are deliberately trying to forget their sigils they draw. I think that's the real reason a lot of people who engage in magic particularly complain about the chaos magicians, because it makes them confront what black magic actually is, not because chaos magicians are edgelords and they like science fiction more than cutesy folklore and whatever.